Curse

Zinger314 · Dec 31, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by leoknight

/signed

It will solves quite a lot problems during quest and mainly mission:

No more rejected by team abused (because you're assassin, mesmer or whatever your profession that they think someone is more important than your role)

No dealing with leaver in the middle of a mission, people being stupid aggro 2-3 groups of enemies to get your whole team kill, or someone in your team speak with an NPC even though you told them not to do it. (player failed to follow order when necessary)

No more waiting for sudden time of day where there's more people online to able to find PUG for mission, ever since Factions and Nightfall released finding a PUG can be difficult especially when you're playing at night time. (Not everyone have the time to play in the daytime except in the late night)

--------------------------------

I have question for people who do not agreed with this idea, why should we put up with such unnecessary frustration with people from the 3 common problems that I listed from above?

...and how does the use of Henchmen not solve those problems?

Annoying players? You, 3 Heroes, 4 Henchmen. Not enough people? You, 3 Heroes, 4 Henchmen. What's the problem?

Tingi · Dec 31, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

/signed

These are my reasons:

First of all, personally I don't like heroes at all, BUT, when I am playing with heroes, it is only because I either cant get a group with real people, or there isn't anyone there...In that case I find myself taking hench as well so I may as well take a full group of heroes.

Bryant Again · Dec 31, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

I was actually hoping for seven heros in the first place. The game isn't easy for some, and I'd love having more "people" in my party I can mostly rely on (there are still a few bad spots here and there).

leoknight · Dec 31, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

...and how does the use of Henchmen not solve those problems?

Annoying players? You, 3 Heroes, 4 Henchmen. Not enough people? You, 3 Heroes, 4 Henchmen. What's the problem?

Problem is that henchman is not nearly as good as my heroes, if I have split up my team then my henchman is falling apart. Eternal Grove mission is good example for it.

Some people think having all heroes can be overpowered so what? Like teaming up with good team is not overpowered? If you think about it, it is basiclly the same thing teaming up with real players except you have higher chance of forming a better team with heroes than with a lot of players.

Vermilion · Dec 31, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

If we have to play with henchies, could we maybe update the bars somewhat?

3 chapters and Mhenlo still doesn't remove conditions. :/

Zinger314 · Dec 31, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by leoknight

Problem is that henchman is not nearly as good as my heroes, if I have split up my team then my henchman is falling apart. Eternal Grove mission is good example for it.

How so? Even if you have 7 heroes, you have to order them individually to a location.

Well, you can do that with the current UI!

You have 4 buttons: Hero 1 control, Hero 2 control, Hero 3 contro, and Henchmen control. Assign your Heroes to one spot, assign your Henchmen to another. What's the big deal?

(And, introducting a game altering change just because of one mission is a bit unreasonable.)

Cathode_Reborn · Dec 31, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinjinbukai

I would find it very hard to control 7 heroes as well as actualy play my character. Because when I think about it, there goes 1/2 a screen dedicated to heroes skillbar/health/mp and after that you sometimes have to micromanage, imagine trying to control 7 different heros 1 by 1. Now I know that Henchies can not be moved by themself, I kind of like this feature, because that means less managing people as much. Now I know a lot of people will say they could manage it, but, in the middle of a battle, and you know you want X hero to do this and Y to do that while Z makes a good combo and I runs away while B uses a stance etc I would find that just a little to much

So for the limit they posted on it at the begining of NF I like that, I think its the perfect number that is managable.

For my sanity only /not signed

Heroes are AI. If you don't manually control their actions/skills, they're not gonna just stand there. They're as stupid as henches, but you can at least set their skills before battle. Henches are all doomed to have a horrible skillbar. Just because you can edit a heroes skillbar doesn't mean you have to have to know what all 7 of them are doing all the time. I'm not sure what point you're tryin to make, but it sounds more like your own problem. If you're skilled at controlling/managing 7 heroes, you'll get things done faster and easier. Of course, they can still do things on their own. Your ability to control them will enable you to do much better than letting them do whatever they want on their own.

As for it making PvE easier, it would make it tons easier. Anet just took the lazy way - rather than giving us worthy enemies with a full/useful skillbar and the ability to have 7 heroes, they just make them lvl24+, give them extra armor/stats, make them attack in huge mobs, then give henches an incomplete skillbar and make them bunch up tightly for AoE dmg to kill them quicker. PvE isn't hard....but the AI and the many clueless people make it hard. Anet would have to buff pve enemies in other ridiculous ways to make sure your 1man-7hero team doesn't stop em without effort

Kong · Dec 31, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

/not signed

No one is forced to do any quest or mission with real people, other than elite missions, and forcing you to have a limit of bring max 3 heroes per person is fine with me. The other slots can be filled with the henchmen to form a complete group.

The game (Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall) is easily done with Henchmen alone, provided you do it right. Adding 3 completely customizable henchmen is great as it is and makes it even easier.

KamikazeChicken · Dec 31, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostbite Yo

a full party is much for fun than a full group of hero's

What you decide is fun may not be true for others. Don't condemn people because they derive "fun" in a different manner.

People like to bitch that heroes killed PUGs, and that may be true to an extent. Most people with any skill already used guild groups or hench to do what they needed in PvE; there was never a point waiting in an outpost for idiot PUGs.

I still don't see why anyone would try and prevent people from having 7 heroes. People who would actually take 7 aren't going to use real people because they're limited to 3; hench have always been a better option than most PUGs. >.>

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Ever wonder why Henchmen don't have perfect Weapons or Runed armor? It so that PvE has some semblance of difficulty.

That was never to give PvE difficulty. The horridly equipped hench were there to try and persuade people to group with humans. That still didn't seem to work though.

Servant of Kali · Dec 31, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Kamikaze Chicken - *insert ad hominem attacks here*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki Seiguro

Henchies are find to me

Well

This isnt vote to remove henchies from the game

So, if you like em, great. I rejoice with you. Personally, i think henchies have horrible skillbars, which in no way synergize with the rest of the team. And i love synergies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinji....

I would find it very hard to control 7 heroes as well as actualy play my character.

And? Do how do you control henchies? You can control heroes the same way, that is, you dont have to control them. Being able to put the runes you want, insignias, and most of all skill, is great. I dont need to micromanage them, nor do i do that with 3 heroes we have now. Sometimes it's micromanaging one, but overall i treat them as henchies with better skillbars.

Quote:

Now I know a lot of people will say they could manage it, but, in the middle of a battle

I see you have no experience with RTS games. You would be suprised that people can micromanage...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Then how come lyra_song, who answers "yes" much more often than myself, said "no" for the exact same reason?

Because he/she said the magic word, which is "yes" in this thread. You provided the wrong answer, and didnt argument it.

OK, to sum it up better - i argumented the stuff in my posts. Those who agree can type /agree, without the need to repeat. Those who disagree need to argument their own posts. The others who disagree can quote those posts and say /agree to them. But you cant just type "no" without beating my arguments.

[quote=I'd think you'd be above ad hominem, Kali.[/quote]

Dont make me start with ad hominem. If i used ad hominem you'd see me banned as i was like 4 time on GWO before i called Aiiane a biatch (with a good reason), and got permaban.

Quote:

Ever wonder why Henchmen don't have perfect Weapons or Runed armor? It so that PvE has some semblance of difficulty.

And? If people think heroes are too easy they can use henchies. Do i forbid them to use henchies and handicap themselves? No. So your argument is flawed.

PvE is easy, anyway. When they make it so difficult that every group with whammo fails some mission because they use noob mending builds, then i'll consider PvE difficult.

As is, you can do 8-man missions with 5 people if they know how to play. Is that difficult? No. So if i can do it with 7 heroes + me, oh wow big deal.

All these "game would be too easy" arguments are silly and you know it. What if 8 guildies go to do some mission. What if PvP guild goes to do some mission. Have you seen the record of The Spearmen on one of the NF challenge missions? Ha? It's obvious that PvE is easy for some, and difficult for others, and it's up to players to decide whether they want to use heroes or not.

Should good teams be penalized in PvE because they are good? Should ANet individualy intervine and say "look Spearmen, you should stick to PvP because when you play PvE everyone thinks it's so easy; you're ruining the image". Do you want that? Now, you'll say "no that's silly", but that's EXACTLY what you're trying to do. You're trying to say "Servant, you're uber, if you have 7 heroes you'll plow through the missions and it will be too easy, i cannot allow it because i dont know how to setup my heroes; thus it's not fair".

Quote:

Originally Posted by leoknight

I have question for people who do not agreed with this idea, why should we put up with such unnecessary frustration with people from the 3 common problems that I listed from above?

You dont get it

People who answer no to this are those with whom no one wants to play. They think that forcing people to play with them is solution, instead of being great teammates with whom others will desire to play.

Horible · Dec 31, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

/patrially signed with on Hori

ill comprismise and grant 5 heros per party.

PARTY SEARCH FTW

it is suppossed to make it easier to find pugs if those kind of people want to.

For the rest of us we can settle with only using 2 henchman

Horible

Pompeyfan · Dec 31, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

That would make PvE too easy, as if it wasn't easy enough.

/notsigned

What difference would it make to you if PvE became easier? Not everyone finds it easy, and if there were 7 heroes, there's no one forcing YOU to use all 7 - just stick with henchies if you want it more of a challange. Each instance of PvE is self-contained so no skin off your nose how people decide to play it - stoping something just because you don't like it is plain selfish.

/signed for those that want it, let them play how they choose.

FelixCarter · Dec 31, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

I loathe Heroes. I'll take a PuG anyday (mainly because I like the community of Guild Wars).

Heroes suck. They're just like henchies. The only difference is that I get to chose how they're going to act stupid instead of the game deciding for me.

/Signed because other people know how to use Heroes and might want to play the game differently.

Lonk · Dec 31, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

/signed

the only problem I see with it is the interface, honestly it is better to just play with henchmen and/or heroes alot of the time because PUGS just don't listen, they're actually worse than the AI could ever be most of the time, and if you're an assassin in pve you're basically required to play the entire game "solo"

I don't know if we really need 7 heroes, but more than 3 gets my vote, heroes are only as powerful as your imagination and unlocked skills can make them.

leoknight · Dec 31, 2006, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

How so? Even if you have 7 heroes, you have to order them individually to a location.

Well, you can do that with the current UI!

You have 4 buttons: Hero 1 control, Hero 2 control, Hero 3 contro, and Henchmen control. Assign your Heroes to one spot, assign your Henchmen to another. What's the big deal?

(And, introducting a game altering change just because of one mission is a bit unreasonable.)

You're missing the point that I am trying to say though, henchman is weak ingeneral, if you have 7 heroes meaning you have full control of skills for each heroes to use. 7 Heroes can be much more to offer to you than 3 heroes and 4 henchman.

ForgeWhelp · Dec 31, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

/signed

Only because my perspective is that in Elona you are forced to get used to using a number of different heros to do different missions. WEll after all the time and energy in equiping and building I'd like to be able to use my new 'friends' for all of my playing. I dislike having to decide which hero I bring and which I have to let sit on the sidelines.

I don't care about it being easier or not, it's simply that after I've invested time and gold into a char that I was 'forced' to use, I'd like to be able to keep using them.

And to be honest I only play with other humans when it's a guildmate or I just can't do it with hero/henchies (and no guildmates are around). I'd say that less then half of my PUGs were even remotely successfull, so I'd rather do it 15 times with henchies/heros before getting 'it' rather than trudging thru 4 bad PUGs to find that the 5th could do it....

Perhaps have Elite missions that let you use 7 heros but it's uber difficult. That way people like me don't feel like they've wasted time and gold on a char that will never get used again...

Zinger314 · Dec 31, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Because he/she said the magic word, which is "yes" in this thread. You provided the wrong answer, and didnt argument it.

Alright, now you are becoming inane.

First off, lyra_song said "/notsigned". She didn't say "yes." No clue how you interpred that.

Second, your second comment...there are no right or wrong "answers!" THAT'S WHY IT'S A FORUM!

If someone disagrees with you, they are automatically wrong?! Then what the heck is the point of this thread!? It should be in Riverside Inn, because it's completely and utterly correct! It's the word of our god, Servant of Kali!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

You dont get it

People who answer no to this are those with whom no one wants to play. They think that forcing people to play with them is solution, instead of being great teammates with whom others will desire to play.

I'm not sure whether you are trying to offensively stereotype here or trying to spew hypocracy.

Take the counterexample. If I said "yes," would that make me "a great teammate with home others will desire to play?" Well, here's some news: if we had access to 7 Heroes, there would be no more parties. Period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leoknight

You're missing the point that I am trying to say though, henchman is weak ingeneral, if you have 7 heroes meaning you have full control of skills for each heroes to use. 7 Heroes can be much more to offer to you than 3 heroes and 4 henchman.

Buff Henchmen, don't eliminate them completely. That I agree with.

Grais · Dec 31, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

/notsigned
Sorry but the lag is bad enough these days, with 3 heroes you go into and outpost and the entire outpost has 4 people in the party. Has anyone thought what having the entire GW population running around with 7 heroes in their party, forget about going into a town, if you dont have the most up to date fastest computer going, which I would say the majority of the GW pop. do not. One of the pillars of the GW series I belived was the ability too run the game without having the most up to date PC. It was with Prophecies, it was with Faction, and it should continue in this vein.
So until they release a GW2, at which point they can go and increase the specs of the required PC to run the game by as much as they want, I really hope they quit introducing huge lag increasing features, and Im sure there will be MANY people too follow who state that the lag Im experienceing has nothing too do with heroes etc...etc..., sorry I will not buy it, and you can call me all the names in the book, when I installed Nightfall, for which I exceed the specs handily, my LAG increased tenfold, what is the main difference in the three, heroes. As much as I appreciate having them, I cant help but hold them a little responsible for the lag they introduced.
Plus most people can walk thru this game with 3 heroes, Tyria is a joke, with 7 heroes there would be few areas left that could pose a challenge. If people really need to get by a difficult mission, party up for the win, I mean you only need to find ONE person, whereas in the early days of THK etc, a person had/still has to in some cases, to find a party of 7. Keep the heroes as they are, they are a powerful force as is, besides the other reasons I can think off, 7 heroes would make too much of the game too easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

OK, to sum it up better - i argumented the stuff in my posts. Those who agree can type /agree, without the need to repeat. Those who disagree need to argument their own posts. The others who disagree can quote those posts and say /agree to them. But you cant just type "no" without beating my arguments.

Guess I missed the " Servant of Kali rules for engagment "sticky that must be posted. I'll go look for it now.

pingu666 · Dec 31, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

theres a couple of reasons i hate, and id guess most hate the required hero in mission thing

a)u get a team of 8 humans, then u find out u gotta bring along say koss, so u haveto kick someone, which i really dont want todo :/

b)gotta search around for who has the least worst koss or whatever, and maybe havetdo the mission with some level 8 that keeps on dieing.

trobinson97 · Dec 31, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kong

/not signed

No one is forced to do any quest or mission with real people, other than elite missions, and forcing you to have a limit of bring max 3 heroes per person is fine with me. The other slots can be filled with the henchmen to form a complete group.

Hmm, so because no one is forced to play with other people makes it cool to force you to have a limit on heroes? Um, I guess that makes sense to you. Anyway, wouldn't it be logical to assume that no one would be forced to use all 7 spots for heroes either? Sounds like you just want to oppose for opposition's sake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KONG

The game (Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall) is easily done with Henchmen alone, provided you do it right. Adding 3 completely customizable henchmen is great as it is and makes it even easier.

Easily done by whom? You can only speak for yourself, not everyone is on your skill level. Besides, what does it matter if it makes it easier? Because you like a challenge you assume that everyone should be up for the same challenge. Why? As I said, with a reason like that, it just seems like you are opposing for opposition's sake.

As a matter of fact, I honestly think that everyone who says no to this is doing the same thing. It would still be "optional". No one would "force" you to get an all hero group, just like no one is forced to pug. There is no real reason to oppose it unless you get into the technical side of things. It would be like, if when the game was firstmade you could only play with henchies. Later Anet adds a feature that let's you add humans to a few spots in your party. Someone comes to Anet with an idea to let player be able to add complete human teams. Who would oppose that? What's the difference? It's still an option.

As for me, I don't play with humans anyway unless it's AB. Most of you are stupid, don't listen, have terrible builds, don't listen, don't know anything, and don't listen. And you know during a mission there will ALWAYS be someone who hasn't seen/simply won't skip the cut scene. Those problems are gone for me. I don't have a problem with 3 heroes 4 henchmen, just like I wouldn't have a problem with the option for 7 heroes. So what if 7 heroes makes the game easier? Who said I wanted a challenge in the first place? Maybe my idea of a relaxing fun time on Guild Wars is steamrolling through Margonite hordes. Why would you want to spoil my fun, it's not like you'd have to do the same thing.

Well anyways /signed as there is no real reason for me not to.